This means nothing (Whole House Generator)
Hello Real Electricians, I need help finding a whole house standby generator to provide electric when a hurricane hits my area. Last year 3 out of 4 hurricanes visited me and I had no real damage. I am blessed. I already found estimates of power usage for all applicances and anything else I would turn on. Forget the coffee pot, blow dryer, etc. Where my question begins and ends is the air conditioner. I called my vendor and got so many numbers I don't know what to do with. 1 have a 5 ton 120 amp 240 volt air conditioner. Watts, amps, volts mean nothing to me when shopping. Could anyone give me a hint of how many watts an airconditioner would require? I definitely want Airconditioning. I will give up eating, bathing, internet and anything else for the air conditioner. AND YES I AM BLONDE!! Assuming your specs are correct, that sounds like a huge air conditioner -- 28,800 watts -- 28.8 kiloWatts (kW). You'd be looking at least a 35kW diesel generator, that would probably be $11,000 with at least another $3,000 to install it. I must thank you for your answer as my vendor did give me the specs for my airconditioner and he came up with the same number as you did. He was going to tell me more, but that was worthless. He also said my airconditioner was large. It keeps the house 2500 sq feet (not really large) comfortable. This is Florida!! I really appreciate your time to answer my question. The 120 amp figure would have been the locked rotor amperage. The actual running amperage would be in the range of 30 amps so for starting aproximately 50 amps is required which would take around 12 kw to be able to just start the compressor. Even at that, one thing you must consider is that while you may be able to get a generator to run your a/c, you would not legally be able to store enough fuel to be able to run the gen for any amount of time. You could get a nat gas one if this is available but you may not be assured a constant supply of gas in an emergency. I know that your heat can be quite uncomfortable but I would suggest that running an a/c that large would go beyond what is reasonable for survival. If you look back in this forum there has been a few posts about running an a/c for people who have an illness, where heat would be considered an emergency. Generally, the solution in those cases, was to install a 5000 btu wall a/c in a small room to serve as a refuge. ttasha: The 120 amp number...did you get that yourself off of the A/C unit or did some vendor give you that number? I also have a 5-ton unit and there is no way in the world that it could EVER draw 120A. Perhaps the vendor just stuck an ampmeter on your main line and saw a number hovering around 120A and told you that's how much you needed. My 5-ton unit is a Trane 12 seer. It will draw no more than 55A. Keep in mind that anytime major appliances like an A/C unit start up, they draw more current for a few moments starting up but when they start humming along the current draw drops down. Also you'll need to remember that you must take into account you'd have to power your furnace/blower because powering only the outside A/C unit does you no good if you don't have a blower to circulate air through the house, so you'd need to get the current draw off of that also. Or perhaps I am wrong and maybe your A/C is very old and does draw that much electricity...WOW! The installer of my 4 year old 5 ton air conditioner 12 seer told me it is 120 amp and 240 volts. Again meaningless to me except I will probably need a 40 KW back up power system just to start it and a light bulb. I just looked at the Guardian and Quiet Source. Both were maximum (that I saw) 40KW. I still haven't decided exactly what to do but I sure like the one called QUIET. I need all the help I can get. Anybody have a favorite stand by generator? Not to discourage you from the idea, but just so you know what amount of money is involved for what you want to do. Generator $12,000 http://electricgeneratorsdirect.com/...70ff3e8c2d55cf Transfer switch $1000 Electrical hookup approx. $2000 Gas hook up, if you don't have an existing gas line to the house you would have to have a underground tank installed which would be at least $1000 They give free delivery but require you to have a forklift on site to unload it Add a few misc. items and you are at around $20,000 The amperage they gave you for the A/C is about right because they are using the start up current and is what you need to start it up but it will not draw that after a few seconds. regardless you need that 40KW to start it or it won't work at all. What we do alot around here ( S Florida) is install a small transfer switch and small generator which will enable you to run lights, refrigerator, and a window A/C unit (or 2 depending on generator size). You can then alternate between the refrigerator and microwave etc... This can be usually done for around $3000 or less depending on size of generator. The more I read here the more I realized I should rethink this. Plus I found out these things use 4 or 5 gallons of gas an hour. The best one I found was a 25 kw that used 4.1 gal hour and is only 71.8 db (quiet for a generator) I already have a window air conditioner and a portable. What was I thinking? This do it yourself is a wonderful site and you people are so very nice to help. There is probably no way you could get a permit to install a 50 to 75 KW genreator in a residence. You certainly could not get a permit for gasoline storage. I understand how often Fl is hit with hurricanes, but if your house in not blown over, then you win the lottery. So you are going to be hot for a few days or a few weeks! Probably air conditioning wasn't even invented when your parents were at your age now. You'll live thru it! What does it cost to air condition your place? We pay 17 cents per Kwh, which would make it about 5 to 8 dollars per hour! 594tough, Is your electrical rate common in the US or just in certain areas? Our residential rate is just under 6 cents /kwh in CDN currency. Would be about 4 1/2 cents US. I agree, something is wrong with that figure, what kind of electric service do you have now, most likely 200A. As I remember I have a 3 ton in a walk in cooler and current draw was in the mid 20A range. TTASHA - Let me throw a whole other perspective on things here from one Florida residnet to another. I am pretty certain that I don't live that far from you (probably a couple hours drivng distance or so) as I am also in an area where the three hurricanes crossed Florida. I know that right now everyone is on a generator kick because it is now hurricane seeason again and Uncle Jeb has the tax holiday going on right now on these sort of things. But I would not recommend buying one of these types of generators. I am a Florida native, having lived in and very near Tampa my whole life. Keep in mind that until last year no hurricane had come to Tampa directly in something like 89 years. Central Florida doesn't normally have hurricanes sweep through like that. You would be better buying a 5500 watt generator from Lowes or Home Depot that would run your refrigerator and many of the lights in your home. It is true that you could be left without cold air for a few days. But keep in mind what happened last year was really a fluke. It is unlikley that a major hurricane will sweep across central Florida like that any time in the next few decades. That much money is just a lot to put into something that you might use rarely if ever. Keep in mind, those are useful more so up north when you have ice storms ect. My wife who is from central Indiana cornfield country has said that every winter you will have a loss of power for days at a time due to the ice hanging on the power lines to the point they snap frrom the weiight. Now ultimatly this is your decision, but I really would not recommend a whole house generator in Florida. 594 tough, Your power prices are high. Where do you live? My prices are $7.72 per kwh (under 1000 kwh) and $8.87 for all kwh over 1000. By the way these generators do NOT qualify for JEB's tax break. Tpairman, I just don't want to deal with lugging a portable generator around. I can't move it myself and I don't want to bother others. So here is my final answer. I will be very happy and comfy with a 15KW standby generator. I do have one wall airconditioner and a portable. The 15KW will run everything I want. My dogs will not suffer. If I had not posted here I would have made a big mistake and bought something that was an overkill and overly expensive. Some things you need to get answers for. How much Gas will you need for your 15KW generator ? For a day or a week ? Where will you store the Gas ? What will you store the Gas in ? one gallon per hr = 24 gallons a day = 168 gallons for 7 days. Can you get the Gas if you need it ? If the power is out you may not get any gas. Gwiz, I worked very, very hard to get to the point of buying this thing. I already called ONE gas company found that since I don't use gas I have one OPTION. Buy the tank for 250 or 500 gallons of LP. They don't offer natural gas. Here is the breakdown for a 250 gallon LP tank (they dig hole, insert tank, and fill it with 250 gallons of LP. Price $3500. The 500 gallon one (they dig hole, insert tank and fill it with 500 gallons of LP = Price $4,500. I wonder if I dig the hole, insert the tank and let them fill it up with LP would the cost be LESS? KEEP READING THIS AS YOU WILL LEARN from a person that walked into LOWE's and was told I needed a 40KW backup power system. After posting here I now know a 15KW will do more than I need. Don't trust a salesperson. NOT even at Lowes or anywhere else. Yes, 15kw makes way more sense. There are a lot of good things about those big stores but getting elect advice is a hit and miss deal. As for the LP deal, that is a bit much, a 250 tank costs maybe 500 tops and a fill is about 400 at the most. A direct burial tank may be a bit more pricey but it shouldnt be over a grand. They are probably epoxy coated and have some kind of special access cover. In emergency I doubt natural would do any good, it would likely be disrupted. Lp is the way to go as it stores well. SBerry27, I agree with you and can thank the people responding to my questions. I really appreciate the help. Now another question since the gas company can charge anything they want when you ask for natural or LP gas. Is it legal to have a container installed and then tell the gas company to fill it and would it be safe? There are certainly other options for purchasing LP or other gas here. I plan to call every other gas company that services my area. Thank you ALL again. I will get what I want and what I need without throwing money for something that is larger but would not give me more than what I really need. Remembere, natural is piped in from the utility so you dont want that, lp is all that you can use here. You might be required to get a couple inspections on this, electric and mechanical for the gas. sberry27, Yes, they told me they don't send gas to non users of natural gas. However, the gas company would install the LP tank for a lot of money. There are a few gas companies here that provide LP so I will see if they are all so very expensive. I wouldn't take it upon myself to install any tank for gas as it would probably blow up. I will just try to find another gas company that does the same thing for less money (I hope) I have never installed an underground LP tank, I know they do that in fancy upscale neighborhoods that dont have piped gas and they dont want to see the bottle, I wouldnt mind seeing what the install looks like and whats special about it. I did have above ground LP gas tanks for my fireplace. However, I had them removed because they frightened me when three out of four hurricanes went through my neighborhood last year. If the tank is buried I won't worry about it. You know out of sight, out of mind Up until the time I called the gas company I had no idea they would come out, dig the hole and bury the tank. I also didn't know how costly that burial ground would be. When I started looking I only saw $3,600 or 6,600 or more to have a nice standby generator. Then call the electrician and pay a couple hundred more and it's done. Wrong, wrong and wrong. Again I must say that I am so glad I stopped here before purchase. Sberry27 you said I wouldnt mind seeing what the install looks like and whats special about it I will try to get some pictures that I will post. The gas company will visit here to see the site (possibly next week). I'll ask them what makes this so expensive. Maybe if I dig the hole it will be cheaper? If you are cute, rich and can cook a great steak I dont really see that much of a problem with this project,,,,, hahahahaha I have a 5 and 4 ton A/C unit at my home. 5 ton pulls 30 amps running and the 4 might pull 23 or so. I have a 25kva pto style generator that works really well. We live out in the country and farm so the tractor was not a problem. We were out of power 31 days during all the storms so the generator came in handy last year. Tractor burns about 15 gallons of diesel a day with a 50 hp tractor. I usually only run one AC unit at a time and everything else normal. I keep an eye one it too and make sure the unit is right at 60 hertz or putting out about 240 volts. Full load at my house is about 23kw with everything kicking. That will never happen but I did test it before I went out and bought. Really glad I invested the money a couple years ago Only was to go if you have a decent size tractor. Just double the KW and thats what you need for HP on the tractor..or a little more depending on the governer setting on the tractor. Just my 2c sberry, I don't cook unless you are talking about microwave steak. So even though a guy might starve there,,, he would be cool doing it,,, I see the priorities here,, ha We are in San Diego. The electric charge consists of a certain allowed baseline usage at one lower rate. ( In my case , in May the allowed baseline was 247Kwh) . Then there is another rate for 101 to 130% of baseline usage; another rate for over 130%. Then you add the fees, taxes, etc. All in all, when you add up the total electric usage charges, it works out at 16 to 17 cents per Kwh most months of the year. This week I am getting written proposals and 2 site surveys - one by gas company and another by a generator dealer that installs and maintains the equipment. This company is suggesting CARRIER generators. One final question before I make my FINAL decision. Transfer switches are 100 + 200 amp and 200 amp cost about double of 100. What is the difference besides 100 amp? Boy I'm glad I don't have California electric rates. Well I guess I will microwave lunch now.
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